Available Here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hashtag-cult/id1525639915
00:00
this podcast contains explicit language
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really explicit language
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listeners of this show should be advised
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that we will deal with a cult that has
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certain ideas that are
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um they’re fucked paulina yeah
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they’re really fucked we’ll be dealing
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with all the ist arts and ite
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racists bigots anti-semites misogyny
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certainly
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and ooh eugenics kicking it old school
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with eugenics
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certainly a very old way to be racist
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but you’ve got to remember
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mgtow and everything we’re talking about
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is a cult uh no matter what they say
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nothing they say is real and we love you
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we absolutely love you
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thank you for coming along on the ride
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and
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we’re sorry already
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[Music]
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what you are about to hear is the
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hashtag called calledpodcast
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what is a hashtag called hashtag cults
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are groups that signal membership by
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using a hashtag or keyword
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this allows the group to operate on many
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different sites and makes them difficult
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to pinpoint
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they use the hashtag model to spread
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propaganda on a variety of social media
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platforms
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without having a central account this is
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usually because their ideas are
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offensive
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or their methods of communicating are
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abusive and
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border on website policy violations in
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this show we will show you the coercive
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groups and cults
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hiding in plain sight on the internet
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[Music]
01:51
hello hello this is hashtag cole podcast
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who are you talking to me as co-host
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my name is paulina pinsky and i’m
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talking to you sir
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mike phallic yeah isn’t that weird we
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both know each other
02:05
wouldn’t you believe it certain podcasts
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know each other’s names
02:08
so what we are currently doing is an
02:11
investigation on mgtow
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right so this we’re making a documentary
02:15
about mgtow which is we’re going to
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explain in a second what that is
02:19
um and this show will deal with hashtag
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cults which uh in the opening you should
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have heard the explanation of
02:25
these are what can be called online
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cults but um
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we are the only people currently to have
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anonymous members of this
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group step forward and talk to us it’s
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pr it’s actually pretty amazing
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uh we are the only people with these
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interviews uh that’s an exclusive i
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don’t know if people know that that’s an
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exclusive no
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never before has an anonymous member of
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mgtow actually talked on camera
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that’s pretty incredible i didn’t know
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that yeah
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lots of them publish stuff which we’ll
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get to in a second but uh yeah
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so mike what is mgtow it’s an acronym
02:58
standing for men going their own way um
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in this episode you’ll see how we get to
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to learning about it uh the
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name of the episode will be mgtow
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reveals itself because i will be naming
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all of the episodes just like their
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anime
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episodes but um they’re a part of the
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red world uh red pill world
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and um this is a very stupid world of
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people who don’t trust women
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because of the matrix and i want you to
03:22
read paulina verbatim
03:24
what i have written about what red pill
03:27
is
03:28
matrix the 99 sci-fi movie about sexy
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computer
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hackers who dress in leather it sounds
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dumb but that is really what it is
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so they they really believe they really
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believe
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all of this stuff based on the matrix
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of women well the irony of this is that
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the matrix is written by
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two trans women and right essentially
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about
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you know you know taking the red pill of
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the blue pill and
03:54
seeing humanity for what it is right and
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in the movie in the movie that’s what it
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is
04:00
in the movie and it’s ironic that these
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people who
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hold really misogynistic probably
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transphobic beliefs
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are subscribing to a movie that is not
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for them
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quite honestly well let me let me stop
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you there probably transphobic there’s
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no
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yeah i mean
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every every sort of ism that could be
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attached to a group
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is holy and openly uh and i
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yeah i want to i want to explain
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something here before we we really we’re
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going to get deep into the matrix later
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so we’ll skip our kind of summary of
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of everything about mgtow and what we
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believe so far this first episode is
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about
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getting into you know mgtow itself but i
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want to explain
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that um what i’ve determined and what
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the group is trying to either prove or
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disprove is that
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these are cult members um so what does
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that mean what it means is that
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a lot of what they’re saying whether
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they actually believe this
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is a really complicated issue um
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and so we don’t want to get too far into
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like they believe this so they don’t
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believe this a lot of it’s brainwashing
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and we’ll actually get into this in this
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episode
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um so let’s talk about what this podcast
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is right now we’re making
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a documentary about mgtow we’ve been
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releasing
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uncut raw like three hour interviews
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um and
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but this there’s gonna be sort of two
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segments of the show which is our
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investigation we’ll break down our
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interviews
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and we’ll have things about
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pre-production
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post-production and sort of more of our
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ex our expertise and knowledge on this
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stuff now that we
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know more about mgtow from our experts
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and that’ll be part one of the show
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we’ll be doing lots of episodes kind of
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giving you clips of our mgtow
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investigation
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the second part will be taking breaks to
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hear about other investigations and
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occults
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true crimes that involve coercion
05:49
narcissism
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and mental health podcasts documentaries
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and books so on those episodes we’ll be
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having the creatives of other media on
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the show and talk about their projects
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in the same way
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um i’m going to start every episode
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telling you what raw interviewer
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watching which is available on hashtag
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cult.org
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or our youtube page and
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i’ll tell you some of the pre-production
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stuff so pre-production stuff
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this video we’re watching uh my friend
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is brainwashed by a sexist cult uh
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minutes
06:18
0-45 so yeah i lost touch with the
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pre-production is i lost touch with a
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friend
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um and he had changed he changed
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drastically over the years that we kind
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of lost touch and every time we had
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interactions they were
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i mean the most general word is worse
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they were they were worse they were not
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the same
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person and it wasn’t like it wasn’t like
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somebody getting a new job and they’re
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busy
06:43
or having a kid and they don’t have time
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for you it was like worse
06:47
it was the same amount of time it was
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the same activities but it was just
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painful um and uh was it what he was
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saying or was it kind of his demeanor
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or everything his career goals changed
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his idea of the world change his ability
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to like
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plan something and uh
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interact in like a way like like
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his ability like if we were to go and
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plan something and it would be there are
07:12
known like shitty elements of doing this
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activity
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then he would be like and i would and i
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would sort of have to coach him over
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time being like
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just relax like just chill you know like
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like like this is gonna go shitty like
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we know it and then like
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or like it’s funny or whatever or let’s
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do it anyway like
07:31
the annoyingness of it and yet still he
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would show up to activities and just be
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so like in another world he would be
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he couldn’t control his emotions in a
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lot of ways and then the stuff he said
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too yeah obviously
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there were a lot of emotional breakdowns
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and emotional talks about
07:47
stuff like this and i really wasn’t
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aware of a lot of it
07:50
um and the main thing in pre-production
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here is he’s afraid of
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of doxing and every single group has
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boogeymen
07:57
every single cult has boogeymen and what
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i mean by that is
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they have something that they want to
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make you afraid of the earliest analogy
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i’ve heard for it is like um like in a
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practical sense it’s like dragons
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i’ve heard that like medieval people
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would use dragons so it’s like well you
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can’t
08:14
leave this this uh like
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feudal process because you’ll get
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attacked by like monsters
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um so is that really the the origin of
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dragons
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that’s well i’m sure there’s other weird
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things but i’ve heard people
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say that before that like oh like that
08:30
was that was one of the reasons that
08:32
myth gets
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bigger and bigger um is you know oh like
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you shouldn’t go there’s there’s dragons
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so they’re they’re boogeyman and and
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lots of cults have this they’re like
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don’t go people won’t listen to you they
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won’t believe you
08:45
is doxing or social justice warriors i
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had never heard the term but my friend
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insisted he be anonymous or she be
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anonymous again
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we could talk about that in a second a
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fear of uh out of a fear of doxing
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so to make it clear doxxing is the idea
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of exposing your online beliefs in order
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to take down your job
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or get you spammed with hate online or
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in real life
09:07
and ultimately this is a part of cancel
09:09
culture which
09:10
obviously is very topical right now if
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you’ve heard of the term
09:13
and like mike had no idea what people
09:15
meant now you know
09:17
i had to ask you said you said to me
09:19
something and you’re like
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uh i think it was like my my dad got
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cancelled and i said
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oh what does that mean yeah well that’s
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the irony of all this i was like he’s
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still i still i listen to his podcast
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he’s still kind of like what does he
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mean i got so confused and and rini was
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like oh
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just ask her i know what it is
09:39
everybody else knew but me you have to
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ask stuff to know
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stuff people asking questions is never a
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bad thing
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as a teacher i can tell you there are no
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stupid questions um and
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well maybe there are but i’m not going
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to tell you to your face that they’re
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stupid
09:54
anyways that was the way this dumb kid
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said to me today
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idiots no i mean it was ironic
10:03
because around the time that we got this
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started and and reins contacted me on
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10:08
to share this interview with me uh my
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dad
10:12
was being cancelled on twitter big time
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uh for coveted related statements
10:16
and so you know as as the this guy is
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afraid of doxing i’m getting messages
10:22
from strangers saying your dad is a
10:23
piece of shit and if you believe him
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then you’re just as delusional you know
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and so
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yeah and you know you know one of the
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things about this is this thing
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and and again this is sort of a primer
10:34
episode for everyone
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but the ability to instill anxiety in
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people
10:39
is really an important part of being a
10:41
cult and the
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ability to instill and if you’ve ever
10:44
been attacked by somebody on the
10:45
internet or just been around these
10:47
people it really does
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i mean you can be as mentally strong as
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you want it
10:52
it makes you feel nervous and so you can
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see how
10:56
that that could make someone feel
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vulnerable even if they don’t have some
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of the other stuff these cults have
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going on
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um so let’s talk about the the anonymity
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for a second
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um the only other member of production
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to ever know about something
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is if someone is an anonymous source is
11:13
if they approach
11:14
paulina and reigns my lovely partner and
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uh our producer
11:18
who will who has notes on this as well
11:19
on this episode and she’ll chime in from
11:21
time to time
11:22
um but the only that would be like
11:24
essentially if someone’s anonymous and
11:25
they approach paulina and they say i
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did this anonymous thing and i want to
11:29
talk about mgtow or
11:31
this group anonymously and they approach
11:32
paulina that would be the only reason
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paulina knows the identity
11:36
and also as a pre-production thing is i
11:38
put tons of subterfuge in these things
11:40
there’s lies about these people’s
11:42
identity not about
11:43
other things in their life but there are
11:44
things you could not watch these videos
11:47
and be like you know oh i figured it out
11:50
from that clue in that clue mecca you
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couldn’t
11:51
there’s jonathan yeah that would never
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happen
11:56
um yeah ultimately we’re trying to
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protect the people
12:00
who are sharing their beliefs with us
12:01
because ultimately this is an
12:03
investigation
12:04
and you know the more people we
12:06
interview the more that we learn
12:07
and i think what’s so powerful about
12:09
this interview is that this is what
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kick-started an entire project
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and it is powerful yeah it’s very
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powerful
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re-watching it i did not remember how
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just
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woof this is going to be a crazy episode
12:22
as a thing about that anonymous stuff
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too
12:24
before we get into clips um although i
12:27
interrupted you ultimately
12:28
but i want to hear the ultimately there
12:30
i forgot it already so don’t worry okay
12:32
ultimately we forgot it
12:33
um but but
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i want to say this i’ve worked i’ve met
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other people in the documentary world i
12:40
meet a lot of people in doing this
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i’ve met people that have made films
12:44
about crime about literally people on
12:46
the street doing crack
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i have never met anyone who has had a
12:51
project with more anonymous interviews
12:52
than us
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um and it’s never my idea they are
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always the one who want to be anonymous
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um or else they want to bail and i say
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would you be open to doing
13:02
the interview anonymously um
13:06
and you know that that’s that’s a weird
13:07
fact and ultimately
13:09
ultimately so ultimately
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let’s go through clips so hell yeah
13:16
me and reems had this the same first one
13:18
i think we have before you
13:20
it’s at um three minutes and 45 seconds
13:24
uh and you’ll hear it right now so what
13:26
what is it that you believe
13:28
as a mgtow so
13:33
how do i put this so i got you know the
13:35
way out the way i grew up
13:37
thinking about relationships and how
13:38
they were going to go
13:40
uh and how things quote unquote should
13:42
be uh ended up being very different from
13:44
how things
13:45
ended up being right
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and name how it is
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the preconceived notion is when you’re
14:02
young you’re
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you think oh you know when you get older
14:05
you’ll meet a girl
14:06
you you get along great you love your
14:08
merrier you start a family
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and things will likely turn out great
14:12
happily ever after
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okay and uh the
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reality is that it’s much tougher than
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that
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so this is about preconceived notions um
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and the idea of meektow one of the
14:27
really powerful ways that all red pill
14:28
groups work is
14:30
their main conceit is i don’t know if
14:32
you remember this quote paulino but
14:34
essentially the
14:35
their main conceited mgtow is you’re not
14:38
stupid you didn’t have a relationship
14:40
that just went bad for some reason
14:42
um you weren’t educated
14:46
so it has to be so this sounds like a
14:49
really casual quote when you’re hearing
14:50
it it’s like i didn’t understand
14:52
relationships growing up but um
14:55
what it really is is you know
14:58
it’s drilling in confirmation bias it’s
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drilling in this idea that you didn’t
15:04
get it before
15:05
now you’re enlightened now you have the
15:07
enlightenment because you were wrong
15:09
before
15:11
um from rene’s notes she says uh
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he’s conflating and offloading his
15:17
objective experience
15:19
with a universality about relationships
15:22
which i think is really interesting he’s
15:24
just
15:26
um like trying to make something that
15:28
happened to him
15:30
mean that it happens to everybody which
15:31
is right making the personal universal
15:35
which from a writing standpoint any time
15:38
you make a general statement it’s a weak
15:40
statement
15:41
like if i were like you know editing
15:44
this guy’s essay and he was like
15:45
you said any of this stuff i’d be like
15:47
this is way too general like let’s get
15:49
into the specifics like don’t
15:51
claim to know other people’s experiences
15:54
only vouch for your own which i mean
15:58
i think generally what i was sort of um
16:02
blown away by was his his trepidation
16:05
like you can sense that he’s really
16:07
trepidatious this entire interview
16:09
until he kind of like breaks a little
16:12
bit but ultimately like
16:15
he it’s amazing to subscribe to a
16:17
philosophy
16:18
that you don’t really know how to talk
16:20
about and
16:21
and it kind of makes sense because it’s
16:23
not like he’s vocalizing
16:25
these ideas and opinions to people it’s
16:28
all
16:28
online and and that’s a big thing that
16:32
um
16:32
you know a future interview will hear
16:34
about from hoyt richards but essentially
16:36
they
16:36
they they these people are leading up to
16:38
a moment in their life where if someone
16:40
questions me on it
16:41
oh i’m gonna get you and he has his
16:44
opportunity and hawaii talks about in a
16:46
future interview
16:46
uh not doing so good at that same
16:48
challenge and
16:50
uh it’s clear here that the subject is
16:53
having the same experience that like
16:55
they tried to really they they were they
16:57
were thinking that they had all this
16:58
knowledge and that they were holding it
16:59
back
17:00
and that once once they let it out at me
17:03
you know i was gonna i was really not
17:06
gonna oh man i’d be so impressed and
17:08
it’s not working
17:10
right right we
17:13
all have the same next quote uh this is
17:16
at
17:17
five minutes 54 seconds um a lot of
17:20
people in our in our in our group wrote
17:21
it out
17:22
which is i never realized how calculated
17:24
women are in choosing their partners
17:27
it’s the realization of how calculated
17:30
women are when they choose their
17:32
partners what does that mean
17:35
you know they have you know uh an
17:38
extensive checklist that you know it
17:40
never occurred to me like how scrutinous
17:42
they could be when they can choose their
17:43
partners so
17:44
i don’t know what that means i honestly
17:46
don’t know i honestly this sounds like
17:47
rhetoric
17:48
i don’t know what it means
17:52
you know they they really like to factor
17:54
in okay
17:56
i’m asking honestly is your sentence
17:58
people care a lot about the person
18:00
they’re going to live with and spend the
18:01
rest of their life with and breed with
18:05
is that your statement that’s supposed
18:06
to shock me
18:08
and viewers uh it’s
18:11
you know what shocked me was like how
18:12
ruthless they are about like how much
18:14
money a guy makes
18:15
uh how much social you know what kind of
18:18
social status the guy has
18:19
you know as opposed to thinking oh you
18:22
know true love can just happen two
18:23
people can just meet and they can just
18:24
fall in love and like
18:26
things are great it’s like no i don’t
18:28
think it works that way
18:30
so everybody wants me rini wants me to
18:33
quote taylor swift so go ahead and say
18:35
what you felt about it and then i’ll
18:36
quit
18:37
i i could i could benefit from being
18:41
more calculated
18:42
and choosing my partners when i read
18:43
that i was like
18:46
i mean not read that i mean i just read
18:47
it in my notes but when i heard that i
18:49
was like
18:50
this guy’s never met me before and he
18:52
doesn’t know how indiscriminate i am
18:54
you know like yeah yeah and that was and
18:57
that was what i assured him later i said
18:59
there’s going to be women who hear you
19:03
say that they won’t be caring and that
19:06
they
19:06
they they only go for good guys and it’s
19:08
like when they only go for men with all
19:10
these different things there’s gonna be
19:11
women being like uh i wish
19:13
there’s gonna be men being there’s gonna
19:15
be men being like i wish
19:17
i wish that was how love worked and and
19:19
um
19:20
it’s pretty unfortunate that he doesn’t
19:21
get that
19:26
a man does something i don’t know this
19:28
song a man does something and it’s
19:30
strategic
19:31
a woman does the same thing and it’s
19:33
calculated um
19:34
which is so reenes also wants me to
19:37
specify right away taylor swift is
19:38
talking about her problem in the music
19:40
industry
19:41
um which is a totally different thing
19:43
the idea of prejudice towards women
19:44
um in like the workplace but she just
19:47
thought of it as a good quote and i
19:49
think it’s really
19:50
interesting what she brings up here and
19:51
she’s essentially saying like
19:54
what i say in a later quote that’s
19:56
really similar which is
19:58
the subject sort of accuses me of not
20:00
understanding women
20:01
and i’m like you’re the one who doesn’t
20:03
understand women i’m fine with it i
20:05
understand them perfectly
20:06
i mean i think that’s kind of a funny
20:08
statement like i
20:09
i i did kind of like laugh to myself
20:12
like
20:13
as i was watching it watching two guys
20:15
just being like no i understand women
20:17
no i understand women and i just thought
20:20
i have i have such i have such an issue
20:24
saying that stuff too like like i’ve
20:26
heard men’s i’ve heard men say things
20:27
like this is the thing i wanna i’ve
20:29
heard men say things like well yeah and
20:30
i know about like menstruation and
20:32
things like that it’s like
20:33
you know as much about menstruation as a
20:35
toddler
20:36
who knows about the idea of potty
20:38
training knows about the intricacies
20:41
of wiping your butt like when you don’t
20:42
have a lot of toilet paper
20:44
and you don’t have like like yeah you
20:47
understand it from the sense if
20:48
you know what it is but like right you
20:50
as a man you are a
20:51
toddler compared to how many times
20:54
someone has
20:55
a a menstruation and how much they’ve
20:57
dealt with it and how much has gone
20:58
wrong like you
20:59
even just on a practical level you know
21:01
nothing but it was more this thing of
21:04
of the uh it related to rini’s thing
21:06
which is saying like
21:07
you’re accusing women of being
21:08
calculating and yet this guy is sitting
21:11
here
21:11
and saying all of these calculating game
21:14
schemes
21:15
about his thoughts on women it’s like
21:17
the person being
21:18
i only brought that second quote up
21:19
which is funny to hear him being like
21:21
you know i know more about no i know
21:22
more about women
21:23
but he’s bringing it out to point out
21:25
that women are calculating
21:27
when the person is him
21:31
i mean i think the kind of
21:35
you know what kind of seal it at all for
21:37
me was when he was talking about and
21:38
this happens a little bit later so maybe
21:40
i’m jumping the gun a little bit but
21:41
just like
21:42
raiding women just like talk about
21:45
calculating like you’re literally
21:46
ascribing numbers
21:48
you’re literally calculating oh that’s a
21:50
great point
21:51
um so let’s let’s go i don’t i think
21:55
that
21:55
um you have the next quote
21:59
um which i concluded as one quote uh and
22:01
people will hear that right now
22:03
um and this is about uh at
22:06
at about six minutes forty it’s like how
22:08
ruthless they are about like how much
22:10
money a guy makes
22:11
uh how much social you know what kind of
22:14
social status the guy has
22:15
you know as opposed to thinking oh you
22:18
know true love can just happen two
22:19
people can just meet and they can just
22:20
fall in love and like
22:22
things are great it’s like no i don’t
22:24
think it works that way
22:26
so oh that
22:29
women only care about money and social
22:31
status and that
22:33
he doesn’t believe in true love yeah
22:37
well yeah he he the true love thing is
22:39
later but um
22:41
he says this thing about about women
22:44
only care about social status and money
22:47
um you know again i
22:50
wish that’s all i cared about because
22:52
then that would make things much simpler
22:54
for me you know then it’d just be like
22:56
okay only rich guys
22:58
you know only bankers but no
23:02
i chose a paralegal musician
23:05
um despite my better judgment no i mean
23:09
it’s just it’s it’s i i guess i feel
23:13
conflicted are you flustered paulina i’m
23:16
totally flustered i mean
23:17
the thing is is like there are people
23:19
who are calculating and only care about
23:21
money and social status but that is not
23:23
the majority of people
23:25
i mean there’s always going to be i
23:26
think that you’d even i think that you’d
23:28
even find
23:29
that those people are
23:34
i i think you’d even find that those
23:36
people are probably
23:37
crappy people but are not this cult even
23:41
i’ll say that too right they are not
23:44
this cold and they’re not
23:46
bad people in terms of like you know
23:50
the way they act they probably are just
23:52
like
23:53
you know a little bit too obsessed with
23:55
money and probably aren’t
23:56
as happy as as other people which is a
23:58
relative thing to say but
24:00
i i don’t i i think even if you find
24:02
those people they don’t confirm
24:04
anything that these guys are saying um
24:07
which which again i i would love to like
24:11
this is starting to get into you being
24:12
flustered i wanted to ask you about this
24:14
you know we talked later about it feels
24:16
so easy to decide that this is where
24:19
to unload on these people yeah you know
24:22
it feels good but like
24:24
how are you coping within this project
24:26
knowing like
24:27
oh these people are brainwashed this
24:29
isn’t real
24:30
yeah i mean throughout this project it’s
24:33
been
24:35
definitely challenging to remain
24:38
even keeled and feeling safe
24:42
i mean i think all of us had at least
24:45
one panic attack
24:46
over the course of these interviews
24:48
we’ll get to that later i
24:49
i was really uh i reached out to another
24:52
journalist friend of mine and told them
24:53
about this investigation and she was
24:55
like
24:56
oh like you have real trauma like you
24:58
you
24:59
you’ve dealt with like some bad people
25:00
like you you sh
25:02
and i was having panic attacks and i
25:03
don’t know why it was like such a
25:05
revelation to me to hear that i
25:07
had trauma from the investigation but we
25:08
all have yeah i mean we all have
25:11
i obviously because i’m a woman i never
25:13
actually interviewed a mgtow
25:15
because that would require um you know
25:19
them thinking women are people um
25:22
[Laughter]
25:24
but like even in the proximity of it
25:26
right like it kind of made me question
25:28
my safety
25:29
and and throughout doing this work it’s
25:31
a question of am i making myself a
25:33
target
25:34
you know and like you know there’s like
25:36
comments on
25:37
videos about you know the way i look and
25:40
you know
25:41
he talks about like bigger women and i’m
25:44
like you know what
25:45
if if being a little chub is going to
25:47
keep me away from big towels i’m
25:49
happy to be a little chub you know like
25:51
oh right i’d gladly gain some
25:54
some poundage yeah but
25:57
i definitely you know i’m i’m generally
26:00
very
26:00
wary of the internet and
26:04
it was interesting timing to go from
26:07
dad being canceled people sliding into
26:09
my dms to tell me that i’m a monster
26:11
you know to you know investigating this
26:14
cult
26:15
online who specifically like really
26:18
does not like women and and
26:21
you know we’re going to talk about
26:24
covert depression later
26:25
and um you know it’s this sort of
26:28
extreme version of uh uh
26:29
scapegoating through uh extrovertism but
26:32
uh
26:33
it’s it’s an interesting phenomenon that
26:35
that that’s the thing that’s that’s so
26:37
interesting that’s going to be hard
26:38
for people to break down is that this
26:40
phenomena of covert depression
26:42
where you sort of compensate or
26:43
scapegoat um covert depression is
26:45
separate from scapegoating but
26:47
like scapegoating your idea your your
26:49
problems
26:50
is not mutual to this group they
26:53
just do it on everything and they have
26:55
so many issues and so
26:56
you’re gonna get people doing this on
26:58
every side of every issue because it’s a
27:00
it’s a mental health issue which has
27:01
been hard for me to not say like
27:03
these people are gross and just bad
27:05
people um which they might be as well
27:07
right well the other thing that we
27:09
haven’t addressed yet is you know
27:10
we were in the height of covid in new
27:14
york city
27:15
and i was hearing you know 15 ambulances
27:18
go by my apartment every single day
27:20
amidst all this and so part of the sort
27:22
of
27:23
magic of this project is that we were
27:25
able to facilitate
27:26
a investigation from two different
27:29
places
27:30
and you know through this project we got
27:32
to know each other
27:33
and we’ve never met in person
27:36
and a really powerful point that we’ve
27:39
made to people
27:40
is we sort of have two really
27:41
interesting elements of our project
27:43
publishing wise which is one
27:44
we put everything out before it’s ready
27:47
and two
27:48
is my point was these people in mgtow
27:51
and other hashtag cults claim
27:53
that it’s the fault of the internet and
27:55
yet through the internet
27:57
that’s how we’ve done all of our really
27:58
positive and you know
28:01
mental health and healthy people and
28:03
experts it’s all been done through the
28:04
internet so to say that it’s
28:05
somehow the fault of the internet it’s
28:07
the fault of where you go
28:09
on the internet it’s the fault of those
28:10
other users on the internet it’s not
28:12
i really didn’t want this to come down
28:14
on the internet like some other projects
28:16
we’ve seen that are
28:17
internet-based problems i wanted to show
28:19
you have a choice
28:20
you might not have a choice once you’re
28:22
brainwashed but you have a choice
28:24
to find good stuff on the internet every
28:26
expert found through the internet
28:27
um absolutely and i think you know we
28:30
talk a lot about
28:32
ingesting healthy foods but we don’t
28:34
talk about
28:35
the quality of the content that we’re
28:36
consuming and i think the media we
28:38
consume
28:40
completely determines our worldview and
28:43
if you’re consuming a lot of rhetoric
28:46
that is easy to digest
28:48
and neatly hateful like it can kind of
28:52
get you into this echo chamber but but
28:54
you know it’s interesting you brought up
28:56
that that word in those terms
28:57
because this is one of the things that i
28:59
want to push is
29:01
that’s true but it also depends a lot on
29:05
your mental health which we’ll get
29:07
deeper into later
29:08
but the fact is paulina and this is
29:10
evidence against sort of using the word
29:12
echo chamber and i don’t want people to
29:14
i like that you brought it up
29:15
but i don’t want people to attribute the
29:17
nasty qualities of talking to anyone
29:20
or this general sort of well that’s the
29:22
internet echo chamber thing
29:23
because guess what me paulina and reins
29:27
we’ve been consuming more of this
29:28
content than probably most mgtows do
29:30
and we’re all fine and so you need to
29:33
be aside from the panic attacks but well
29:36
but that’s that’s because we’re talking
29:37
to
29:38
terrible people but you know like or
29:40
people who are brainwashed in a cult
29:42
it’s a very scary energy
29:44
and we’re going they’re not terrible
29:45
people they they they have adopted
29:47
a terrible framework ideology yeah
29:50
and this facade is very scary it’s the
29:52
design of it is to be scary
29:54
and but to say i think there is this
29:57
thing where people was like well you
29:58
you imbibe the stuff and you become it i
30:00
really i really don’t think that that’s
30:02
that that’s the case here and we’re
30:03
going to talk to some psychologists who
30:05
talk about this and that
30:06
i believe there’s a lot of pre-existing
30:08
things going into this and this sounds
30:10
like a great
30:10
answer but let’s get back to quotes i
30:13
think i have a quick note which is
30:15
you almost miss it um which is
30:18
at one point the subject says i don’t
30:19
have any answers
30:21
um and his evidence is just in his
30:22
experiences um
30:24
and and this this gets to confirmation
30:26
bias and sort of what reigns pointed out
30:28
before
30:29
which is that it’s all paranoia
30:33
it’s it’s all you can look at any
30:34
experience with paranoia and go
30:36
that’s proof um but you have the next
30:39
quote which i thought was um
30:43
really interesting um he’s seen uh you
30:46
have a quote of couples going south
30:48
we’ll play that as well right here and
30:50
that goes along with what we just said
30:51
but
30:52
at nine minutes he’s talking about
30:55
bragging
30:56
hmm i what would it take
30:59
what would it take what would you have
31:01
what evidence would you have to see to
31:04
say
31:04
i’m wrong because i know
31:08
i know dozens of couples that defy what
31:11
you say
31:12
so what does it take for you to and
31:14
there are and i don’t know that many
31:16
people
31:17
what what what does it take for you to
31:19
see that you’re wrong
31:21
i mean i don’t think you should be given
31:22
that much but what would it actually
31:24
take for you to see that that’s not how
31:26
women view things
31:28
you know i’ve seen so many cases of
31:31
couples
31:32
you know in my personal life and just
31:33
from consuming this content and
31:35
being exposed to it of couples going
31:38
south
31:39
things go you know falling apart okay
31:42
and um you know i i kind of you know i
31:46
hear these stories and i kind of connect
31:47
it back to
31:48
experiences i’ve had and like reactions
31:50
women have had to like things that i’ve
31:52
said
31:52
or reactions to what
31:55
i’ll give an example i’ll give an
31:57
example so i remember
31:58
i was at a gathering and
32:02
i remember i was trying to like brag to
32:04
this girl like
32:05
because what happened gathering sounds
32:08
rhetorical too do you mean a party
32:12
yeah i was at a party i was at a park
32:13
okay it was actually a concert but it
32:15
was after the show was done so we’re
32:16
just talking the venue
32:17
you know okay anyway so
32:21
um i’ll just tell you the whole thing so
32:24
i i kind of walked up to this one girl
32:28
and i just said like hey how’s it going
32:30
and then she literally just looked me up
32:31
and
32:31
just walked out the fucking door okay
32:34
and that’s fine that’s fine that totally
32:35
happens i get it
32:36
and i remember i go back to my group of
32:38
friends and uh
32:40
and i was like yeah you know this stuff
32:41
happens and i said i quote
32:43
i remember one time i just walked up
32:44
this girl at a cafe and you know
32:47
we dated for a year and uh
32:50
the girl i was telling this to like just
32:52
started smiling
32:54
she just started smiling and like i
32:56
think i know why she was smiling
32:57
okay and it’s like there’s like a deep
32:59
meta to why she was smiling and laughing
33:01
at me
33:02
in that case nothing’s anything wrong
33:04
with that but like i understand the
33:06
truth
33:06
now and the truth is it doesn’t you know
33:09
she thought it was like pathetic that i
33:11
but that i was proud of having
33:14
dated a girl for a year if i was
33:16
actually proud
33:18
i mean something to actually be proud of
33:20
in her mind would be like oh
33:22
you know i i slept with her that night
33:25
yes
33:25
i thought that that was so interesting i
33:28
you know
33:31
it’s it’s funny because i think bragging
33:35
in specific context is like a really
33:37
good thing but opening with bragging is
33:39
such a
33:40
weird like macho approach
33:43
to women like it’s such a weird like
33:46
let me go up to this woman and impress
33:48
her with my things you know it’s like
33:50
what like why don’t you just yeah and i
33:54
i struggled i struggled with a lot of
33:56
these things
33:57
in saying the reverse as someone who’s
34:00
really conscious of how they talk
34:02
about people i really struggled saying
34:04
things like
34:05
later on i talk about being good at
34:07
sleeping with women
34:08
you know it’s this ridiculous sentence
34:10
to say out loud
34:12
and it’s it’s this thing of like
34:14
impressing women and being
34:16
and whatever and being this i mean come
34:19
on
34:20
it’s just it’s just not real i mean i
34:23
thought it was super poignant that you
34:24
know
34:25
she looked him up and down and smiled
34:27
and walked away or whatever
34:29
and he took that
34:32
and contorted it to his own liking right
34:35
like he
34:36
ascribed meaning to it that it may not
34:39
necessarily
34:41
you know have needed and i think
34:44
something that we don’t talk enough
34:45
about
34:46
is that rejection is a part of life
34:49
i mean it’s not everything is going to
34:52
fit
34:53
it’s so hard in projects like this
34:55
because and this is one of the reasons
34:57
that marines is so valuable
34:58
is because you know she’s not in the
35:00
arts and the way that me and paulina is
35:02
but she’s certainly used to a lot of
35:03
rejection like any normal person
35:05
but it’s so difficult because rejection
35:06
is a part of
35:08
entertainment you just get rejected like
35:10
it’s almost
35:11
all no it’s almost all no it’s just a
35:14
life of no and then someone says yes
35:15
you’re like oh my gosh
35:16
um but yeah i think that that’s
35:20
but but what you’re assuming too and
35:21
this will get to the next part that
35:23
we’re talking about this actually
35:24
transitions into the next quote so i’m
35:25
going to play that and then
35:26
talk about it so this is at 12 minutes
35:28
22 seconds and he’s talking about
35:30
women will sleep with this person and
35:32
starts to really lay out basic mgtow
35:34
philosophy women
35:38
i mean they have every right to they
35:40
like to sleep with
35:41
a lot of like really macho guys
35:44
especially in their early 20s they like
35:46
to do that and
35:48
then they like to and maybe when they
35:51
take a break from that they date
35:53
uh guys who are not macho you know let’s
35:58
stop there
35:58
because i think that maybe that’s
36:00
something you’re not really
36:01
understanding
36:02
do you know what a sex doctor is sex
36:05
scientists have you heard of these
36:07
uh i can i can kind of guess what what
36:09
that’s about this doesn’t surprise me
36:11
that you don’t know what this
36:12
is there is an entire science
36:15
dedicated to understanding sex are you
36:17
aware that there’s people that enter in
36:18
sex studies who masturbate and have sex
36:20
in front of scientists for the purpose
36:23
of science
36:24
i mean these are funded studies do you
36:26
know that that exists no i don’t
36:28
do you know that everything you’re
36:30
saying
36:32
is something that freud would have tried
36:34
to examine
36:35
and try to find trends in and do you
36:38
know that like
36:39
you’re so far from the mark it’s
36:42
ridiculous
36:43
so the fact is is that you’re watching
36:45
all these videos online
36:47
and again this is not about proving you
36:48
wrong you can’t tell me what a sex
36:51
scientist is you’re not looking at sex
36:53
science
36:56
and yet you seem to know everything
36:57
about the sexual habits of women in
36:59
their 20s if women in general
37:01
you seem to also be only interested in
37:03
women that you want to have sex with
37:05
what are the sex habits of octogenarians
37:07
for example
37:08
you what we assume again is that they
37:12
don’t get it and this is the thing
37:13
that’s going to be so hard for people to
37:15
get which is that
37:16
we want to ascribe this group to the
37:18
sexism of life
37:20
and it is in a lot of ways it is in a
37:22
lot of ways uh
37:23
we’ll talk about in later investigations
37:25
the room with which mgtows have to
37:27
operate because of
37:28
misogyny in the world but uh you’re what
37:32
you’re doing there is actually assuming
37:33
he’s a better person than he is
37:35
this guy from my knowledge of him and
37:37
what he says in the
37:38
in the the piece hasn’t slept with a lot
37:41
of women hasn’t asked a lot of women out
37:43
and so this one story i guarantee it is
37:46
the one time he talks to a girl
37:48
um i guarantee it’s the it’s it’s it’s
37:51
it’s a handful of times he’s tried to
37:53
flirt with women
37:55
and so it’s not it’s a little bit like
37:58
in terms of being a toddler again this
38:00
analogy it’s a little bit like
38:02
when kids first start to fool around and
38:04
then they’re like oh like when you
38:06
do this thing with a penis and the balls
38:09
and whatever and it’s like
38:10
yeah how many times have you done that
38:12
you know what i mean right
38:13
like i’ve totally touched boobs they are
38:16
this is the i’ve totally touched boobs
38:18
this is the i’ve totally touched boobs
38:22
yeah i feel i feel i feel like we would
38:26
be remiss
38:27
to not talk about the
38:30
idea that men going their own way can be
38:33
an empowering
38:34
experience right like in a feminist
38:37
context
38:38
yeah in a feminist context you know
38:41
they’re
38:42
if a woman is like i’m done with men or
38:43
i’m done with dating or whatever it
38:45
would be seen as an act of empowerment
38:47
but in this context it’s a little bit
38:49
more problematic because it’s embedded
38:51
in hatred right it’s embedded in this
38:54
idea let’s
38:55
be clear here one of the really poignant
38:56
things that someone says later on
38:58
a good friend of our project rachel
39:00
bernstein who i call
39:02
the the veteran soldier who kept a lot
39:04
of us calm we were
39:05
we were we were sort of the rookie
39:07
battalion like shaking there being like
39:09
we’re scared
39:10
and she kind of guided us through a lot
39:11
of this but i asked her can we call this
39:13
a cult
39:14
and she said at first i don’t think you
39:16
could but now you can
39:18
and the reason she says that is the
39:20
reason that a lot of people are hesitant
39:22
to us calling this a cult
39:24
in theory it sounds like a woman being
39:27
like you know what i’m done with men for
39:28
a little i need to work on myself
39:30
because they co-opted feminism
39:32
but you’re backing it up and this is a
39:34
great transition
39:35
you’re backing it up with eugenics which
39:38
is a really
39:39
old way of being racist eugenics is the
39:42
idea
39:43
that by either eliminating from the
39:45
breeding pool from the gene pool
39:47
or somehow using science to prove
39:49
inferiority
39:51
in uh certain types of people races
39:54
sexes genders religions
39:56
that you will prove and the desire to
40:00
get rid of them from the human race by
40:01
saying they’re genetically inferior
40:04
women don’t do that when they say
40:07
a healthy woman who says you know i i i
40:11
focus too much on men you know the
40:12
bechtel test comes to mind
40:14
uh if you don’t know what that can you
40:15
explain the bechdel test so the bechtel
40:17
test
40:17
was created by allison bechdel who is a
40:20
writer
40:21
she wrote fun home um the the graphic
40:24
novel
40:25
and i think another one that is sitting
40:27
right next to me
40:28
is it i love it it’s so good
40:32
um but essentially the bechtel test
40:35
looks at any sort of
40:36
visual media like a movie or television
40:38
show and
40:39
if a female character talks about
40:43
something other than a love interest
40:44
twice then it passes the bechdel test
40:48
so you know i there’s a lot of movies
40:50
that don’t pass the bechdel test because
40:52
often
40:53
women are meant to specifically focus on
40:56
their romantic interests
40:57
in in movies and television so sorry it
41:01
fails the bechtel test if they
41:02
fail it fails more than twice yeah so if
41:05
if
41:06
if there’s a female character and she
41:08
has a best friend and they talk about
41:10
her boyfriend the entire movie that does
41:12
not pass the bechdel test
41:14
right and so the idea is that a lot of
41:16
female characters are written in
41:18
uh being you know
41:21
that’s their only reason in their
41:23
romantic interest yeah it’s
41:24
it’s not a nuanced perspective on women
41:28
um so that’s the difference is
41:31
is that allison bechdel is focusing on
41:35
a one element of one thing which is
41:39
really important is she’s saying
41:41
let’s let’s take that she’s saying in
41:43
the work of fiction
41:46
this is an important thing to create
41:48
multi-dimensional
41:50
characters now that does not apply
41:53
to life that does not guess what if
41:56
you’re
41:56
having a problem in your relationship
41:58
that might
41:59
dominate a lot of your life if if it’s
42:03
so problematic that it’s all you focus
42:04
on
42:05
you should be aware of that but that
42:07
doesn’t mean your story is somehow
42:09
invalid again it doesn’t apply to life
42:12
it applies
42:13
to works of fiction in creating more
42:17
diverse female characters it’s this
42:20
thing
42:21
of taking and one of the things that
42:23
cold hashtag cults thrive on is taking
42:24
an example like allison bechtel and
42:26
saying see
42:27
women do it too but in reality it’s
42:30
they’re taking all those things which
42:31
are meant to be individual points
42:33
and turning it into a unified theory
42:36
which is is not
42:37
very strong uh they operate and read it
42:39
in youtube quite a bit
42:41
video content creation and now bitch
42:43
shoot uh which is a
42:45
no limits uh video platform
42:49
uh but shoot yeah it’s gross it’s
42:52
spelled
42:52
bitch oot which i’m sure is not
42:54
accidental um
42:56
like uh bitch and then ute
42:59
uh but nice uh the
43:04
one of one of the things that it says
43:05
the mgtow 2 reddit which is supposed to
43:07
be the better
43:08
mgtow reddit um this is my favorite rule
43:12
on any reddit that shows
43:13
exactly how blind they are to all their
43:16
stuff which is is
43:17
is sort of why this eugenics thing’s
43:18
come up one of the rules is
43:20
paulina are you ready for this i don’t
43:23
know
43:23
[Laughter]
43:25
yeah i’m ready keep misogyny to a
43:28
minimum
43:28
[Laughter]
43:33
so not so not that so not that you
43:36
shouldn’t do misogyny just come
43:40
on guys don’t do so much messiah
43:43
what’s the tip just the tip of misogyny
43:46
just the tip oh so
43:50
oh yeah i think we all have the same
43:55
quote
43:55
next um which is about
43:58
uh no no no you have the next quote uh
44:01
you have at 14
44:02
30. so essentially we all have from um
44:06
14 no reins doesn’t have it me and
44:09
paulina have it
44:11
from about 14 30 through um
44:14
through 15 uh through yeah right up to
44:17
15. uh and we’ll we’ll play that now
44:19
so why you don’t know
44:23
the sexual predilections you’re only
44:25
interested and seem to be educated
44:27
on the sexual predilections of women who
44:29
might be in porn
44:31
and even then there’s elderly women in
44:33
porn elderly men in porn can i tell you
44:36
i haven’t watched porn in years
44:37
can i say that yeah say whatever you
44:40
want yeah i know i’m gonna put that out
44:42
there i actually haven’t watched porn
44:44
in i mean obviously like what do you see
44:46
that as some sort of accomplishment
44:48
uh it wasn’t that hard for me to stop it
44:50
but like i just
44:51
why does it have to be hard or bad what
44:53
what some people are addicted to it some
44:55
people find it or they can’t
44:56
you know are you addicted to porn no
44:59
were you addicted to poor
45:00
i consumed it i don’t think i was
45:02
addicted to it though but i was in the
45:03
how i was a habitual
45:05
viewer so just so you know what you’re
45:07
espousing is actually
45:09
a more extreme feminist
45:12
uh point of view that porn is bad
45:15
um do you are aware that that’s a
45:17
feminist idea
45:18
isn’t feminism you know liberation that
45:21
you know they can do whatever they want
45:22
they can film whatever they want
45:23
your group is listed as an anti-feminist
45:25
group
45:26
it’s an anti-feminist group you’re
45:29
espousing and again we’re so far off the
45:31
point here
45:32
sure but but you’re aware that not
45:35
watching porn is a feminist idea
45:38
are you aware there’s other things
45:39
there’s other things about feminism that
45:41
i
45:41
i instinctually disagree with but the
45:44
fact is is that i don’t think you do
45:47
instinctually disagree with them
45:48
i think if i’m gonna put all my cards on
45:50
the table i’d love to see yours too
45:52
i think you’ve had a rough time with
45:53
women i think you’re probably suffering
45:55
from depression
45:57
i think that your
46:00
looking for something where you’re
46:03
correct
46:04
and you want to feel you’re right
46:07
because
46:08
inherently you cannot disagree with
46:10
feminism because
46:11
anyone who considers a feminist knows
46:13
that some feminists are against porn and
46:15
strip clubs
46:17
and against sex workers that that is an
46:19
idea that originates
46:20
from feminism whatever you want to think
46:23
about
46:25
i’ll give them that but um now i caught
46:27
something you didn’t so what did you
46:29
think about this
46:31
so in the interview you talk about
46:34
how his porn habits are actually a
46:38
feminist perspective that he’s
46:40
accidentally co-opted um
46:43
but i you know it’s interesting because
46:46
it’s another moment of
46:47
mgtow sort of exposing maybe even a
46:50
healthy habit
46:51
that like he’s not consuming porn and
46:53
his expectations aren’t being formed by
46:56
the porn that he’s consuming which is
46:58
ironic because often
47:00
the idea is that you know you learn
47:03
sexual
47:04
tips and tricks if you will from
47:06
pornography because there’s a general
47:07
lack of sexual education in this country
47:09
and
47:10
often that can kind of leave someone’s
47:13
sexual partner kind of abandoned because
47:15
they’re
47:15
you know moving through the motions of
47:18
what they’ve seen rather than what feels
47:19
good and asking their partner what’s up
47:21
and so it’s interesting that this
47:25
approach is is somehow a mgtow view
47:28
right
47:28
that like well maybe we should talk
47:31
about the difference between mgtow and
47:32
incels
47:34
so um let’s touch on their porn stuff
47:36
first because because that’ll
47:38
be a good transition i’ve learned a lot
47:40
about porn
47:41
in mgtow since this interview so firstly
47:43
let me clarify what i said
47:45
what i said was essentially before we
47:48
get to the
47:49
the feminist stuff which is interesting
47:50
my whole point to them feminists are one
47:52
of their boogeymen
47:54
that we talked about before feminists
47:56
and social justice warriors and doxxing
47:58
these are their boogeymen that keep them
48:00
from sharing their stuff what i meant to
48:03
say and what i will say to everybody who
48:05
just says quote unquote feminist
48:07
is we need and this is as somebody who’s
48:10
not taking a side on feminism not
48:12
because i don’t believe in the equality
48:14
of women but because
48:15
i’m not a feminist scholar and what i’m
48:17
saying to you is stop
48:19
listening to people when they say
48:20
feminists because you should start
48:22
saying
48:23
obviously in conversation it’s like
48:25
dickish to be like well where did you
48:26
read it tell me the actual place but
48:28
honestly feminist is a red flag because
48:31
it’s like
48:32
witch feminists tell me which feminist
48:35
said that and so what i was trying to
48:37
illustrate to him was
48:39
you don’t know any feminists
48:42
that thing you know even you pauline i
48:45
know you know so much about you’ve read
48:46
so much about feminism and you want to
48:48
talk all about
48:48
you know oh how this feminist use porn
48:51
differently than this feminist and
48:52
there’s
48:52
some negative attitudes in porn and
48:54
there’s this thing and this is how and
48:55
this
48:56
he doesn’t know any of that i mean porn
48:59
has been a hot but my whole point was
49:00
porn’s a hot button issue in feminism
49:02
for years and even me
49:04
who’s barely read femme i’ve read a
49:06
comic book
49:07
you know about that from alice and
49:08
baxter i can hardly say
49:10
i’m a feminist i know that porn is a
49:12
hotly debated issue
49:14
in feminism and many take the account
49:16
that there should be
49:17
you know uh more of a healthier genre
49:20
towards women
49:22
yet he doesn’t know that and so my whole
49:24
point
49:25
anyone that just starts saying feminist
49:27
is which
49:29
feminist which is rich great
49:33
yeah i i think a lot about um something
49:35
that bell hook said
49:36
is that you know people wear feminism as
49:39
or say call themselves a feminist as if
49:42
it is a
49:43
outfit to be donned right it’s something
49:44
that you can put on and
49:46
something that she said that really
49:47
stuck with me is that feminism is more
49:49
a theoretical framework through which
49:51
you practice your life
49:52
right and i think that that is an
49:56
important
49:56
thing here and and that’s definitely
49:58
where my feminism comes from is
50:00
you know i try to rather than claim
50:03
myself as something
50:04
and wear that title proudly i’d rather
50:07
act in a way that is in
50:08
in accordance to an ideology and it’s
50:11
ironic
50:12
that feminism has become this like
50:16
you know kind of
50:19
dogged dangerous thing to these men
50:22
because ultimately it just allows women
50:24
to be
50:25
people and have rights um
50:28
and again um so we’re sort of touching
50:31
on everything we’re trying to give you a
50:33
vague outline of this
50:34
of this project so we’re gonna have to
50:36
start like speeding up but
50:38
um uh or maybe do this in two parts but
50:41
uh yeah essentially they don’t they
50:44
that idea of making fun of feminists
50:47
which may seem casual
50:48
and maybe even part of a genuine
50:51
political belief
50:53
um even from somebody who’s ignorant
50:55
gives room
50:56
for them they don’t really know what
50:59
feminists want
51:00
they don’t know it right and so they’re
51:02
they’re
51:03
they’re the uh
51:06
the idea that other men are against it
51:09
is what gives them the room
51:10
to then get extreme and say that
51:12
feminists will dox you
51:14
and feminists will you know not believe
51:16
you and there’s a
51:17
as we’ll get to later a nazi conspiracy
51:19
that jews invented feminism in order to
51:21
take
51:22
down society uh which is one of their
51:25
glamour
51:26
common held belief um uh
51:29
we did it well
51:32
but it’s like the jews invented feminism
51:34
like all right with the nazis what
51:36
uh to take down society now come on come
51:38
on guys
51:40
that sounded like a positive towards us
51:41
at first um
51:43
we both had the same quote and i want to
51:45
jump to that because
51:46
um i think incel let’s skip over that
51:49
for
51:50
now the difference between uh uh insel
51:52
and mgtow
51:54
uh because i think it’s it’ll it’ll come
51:55
up again as we keep going forward
51:57
because you and i have exactly the same
51:58
quotes um
52:00
in the next few minutes it’s this one
52:03
about happiness
52:04
are you happy right now i am very happy
52:07
yes
52:08
okay with your relationship with women
52:10
no
52:11
so then i don’t really care about the
52:14
other parts that you’re going to be
52:15
happy about
52:16
you have an unhealthy unhappy
52:17
relationship with women in your life and
52:19
the only reason you’re happy with it is
52:21
because you see them as villains
52:23
i’m happy that i’ve just chosen not to
52:25
care about it anymore
52:26
i’m happy that i’m just not worrying
52:29
about it anymore but you’re not
52:32
not worrying about it you fear it
52:36
you’re not worrying about it i can go
52:39
into
52:39
any location and talk to a woman
52:42
and i’m not worried about it
52:48
if i if if if i was single and i was
52:51
trying to to
52:52
maybe see if this person is single i’m
52:54
not worried about it
52:56
if i’m dating someone which i am dating
52:58
someone i’m not worried about them
53:00
i’m not worried about it you are in fear
53:03
that’s different hiding is yes a form of
53:06
not worrying but
53:09
let’s go back to this issue here what
53:11
don’t you like about feminism
53:13
okay here’s here’s my take here’s my
53:16
take and this is
53:17
you know i don’t have all my evidence
53:19
printed out ready to release
53:21
changing your life views on it so don’t
53:23
i don’t really appreciate the sarcastic
53:25
tone towards me asking you where you’re
53:27
getting this stuff
53:28
that’s not it’s not cool no i’m just not
53:30
a regurgitator i don’t like to i
53:31
i something i don’t like to i’ve just
53:33
never been that kind of guy that can
53:34
regurgitate
53:35
you know i don’t i choose not to fester
53:37
i didn’t have this sitting on the top of
53:38
my head
53:39
i got the main conclusion and i sit on
53:41
what don’t you like about feminism
53:43
i don’t what i don’t like about feminism
53:44
is that they cherry-pick
53:47
they like to have all the benefits of
53:48
the quality and then none of the
53:51
downsides of equality what would be the
53:52
downsides they’re not doing
53:54
so an example would be in the court
53:57
system so
53:58
for a long time they the courts
54:02
and court systems were notoriously
54:03
anti-male
54:06
and then once you know let’s say you
54:07
have a right to this long time could you
54:10
have years
54:11
because i think a lot of people can
54:13
think of some years where that’s not the
54:14
case
54:16
okay so past 40 years 50 years
54:20
so what now it’s different is it now
54:23
better it’s slowly changing judges are
54:25
wising up
54:26
judges are wise to to to what though
54:28
these are all vague facts
54:32
i’m just telling you all what thing
54:36
are are they biased towards women
54:40
i’m asking what issues do were women i
54:43
mean it’s ridiculous
54:45
what what issues were women getting the
54:48
better
54:49
end of things was it in the period where
54:51
they couldn’t vote
54:52
what what error was it where they were
54:55
getting it better
54:57
you know i don’t know man can we have it
54:59
next question please
55:00
which we’ll put up and then um
55:05
this next one about uh okay cupid
55:09
uh study from okcupid uh
55:12
women rated eighty percent of men as
55:15
below average looking
55:18
okay so right there you know
55:22
they can be very picky
55:26
so this is this is where it gets into
55:29
this okay i have to be i could get calm
55:33
here this
55:34
goddamn okay cupid study
55:37
is so fucking
55:40
dumb and his i hear this
55:44
more with mgtows it’s they quote it all
55:48
the time and we did this
55:51
i think you’ll see where this is
55:51
transitioning into mgtow and incel um
55:54
which are both red pill cults um but
55:57
uh they
56:01
love to cherry-pick these things like
56:03
this
56:04
this the stat doesn’t even actually say
56:08
that it’s a statistical stat
56:11
about how people a use an app
56:15
b there’s an assumption in it
56:16
essentially there’s this dumb 80 20 rule
56:18
which is an economic
56:20
uh phenomena sometimes okay and
56:24
they use it because it says 80 and 20
56:26
percent that’s why they hang on to it
56:29
it doesn’t also mean there’s a big flaw
56:31
with understanding this when we do
56:33
telephone dieting statistics studies are
56:35
always things that people misquote
56:38
it’s not it might not be the same 20 you
56:41
idiots
56:42
if 20 of the guys are above average
56:44
looking there’s nothing saying
56:46
it’s the same 20
56:49
it means that on average people are
56:52
that picky on this app so they assume
56:55
they’ve assumed there’s a real flaw in
56:57
assuming oh
56:58
20 of these guys and this is this idea
57:00
that 20 of the workers this
57:02
supports hypergamy which you’ll hear
57:03
about later 20 of the workers do 80
57:06
of the work which isn’t what this is
57:07
saying this is saying that 80
57:09
of the guys are eliminated because it’s
57:11
an app where you can it’s a
57:12
meat it’s a meat fact uh well
57:14
whatchamacallit it’s a meat market of
57:16
course you’re going to choose
57:17
which guys you but it’s not the same 20
57:21
also have you been on okcupid me
57:24
and reins met on okcupid that’s
57:27
see that’s the thing either you meet
57:28
your partner or it’s the saddest place
57:30
on earth
57:32
it is well we can talk about how me and
57:33
marines met it was very happenstance but
57:36
uh yeah i mean i’ve heard a lot of
57:38
positive things about okcupid because
57:40
you’re allowed to write a lot
57:41
but that being said you hear what i just
57:44
said
57:45
write a lot it’s an app based on on that
57:48
is meant to appeal to people who like
57:50
reading about you right it’s a more not
57:53
imagery and in fact okcupid for a long
57:56
time didn’t i don’t even think had
57:57
uh like you you you could you had to go
57:59
further in to see pictures of the person
58:02
right it didn’t have a swiping feature
58:03
originally if i remember correctly
58:06
so let’s talk of all of those
58:10
uh platforms well or i was
58:14
yeah is
58:19
sweating so
58:22
uh this sort of transitions in the
58:24
difference between in-cell and feminine
58:26
and uh
58:28
insel insel and mgtow that you were
58:31
saying before
58:33
yeah um so the thing
58:36
that distinguishes between incel and
58:39
mgtow is that incel as the word itself
58:42
kind of ascribes is that those folks are
58:45
involuntarily celibate right
58:47
like and they will say that it has to do
58:49
with it
58:50
in theory yeah in theory their
58:54
their unmanliness their undesirability
58:58
a lot of sad shit just really like a sad
59:01
sad sad sad ideology
59:03
whereas mgtow is sort of pseudo
59:06
um empowerment in that these men
59:09
are quote unquote choosing to go their
59:11
own way right
59:12
but they’ll ultimately you know what
59:15
makes their
59:16
their position so stagnant is that they
59:18
are so
59:20
hyper judgmental of any
59:24
any everyone quite literally and
59:27
and it’s not coming from a place of
59:29
empowerment but a place
59:31
of they’re ultimately saying that it’s
59:33
coming from a place of abundance but
59:34
ultimately
59:35
it is only coming from a place of
59:37
scarcity right
59:39
and we’ll get really into this in a
59:40
future interview with a former pickup
59:42
artist
59:43
um but yeah they are both um
59:46
brainwashed and they are both red pill
59:48
cults and
59:49
um mgtow very clearly
59:53
co-opted feminism it’s there’s pure
59:56
evidence that we’re we’re actually i
59:58
think making a video now that shows
59:59
every
60:00
single we talked about it as like an
60:02
audio between the three of us about
60:04
every single
60:05
thing that’s like that’s this feminist
60:07
idea that’s this feminist idea just
60:09
turned into a
60:10
kind of funhouse mirror version of it um
60:14
so i think we’re going to have to do
60:15
this in two parts
60:18
okay okay so so
60:21
um we only made it to this part um
60:25
next time next time we’ll play this
60:27
little clip
60:28
next time your parents can love each
60:31
other but you but you can’t
60:33
you can’t love you can’t love anyone
60:39
no love aloud do you believe in love at
60:43
all
60:44
i believe in conditional love not
60:47
condition unconditional love from a
60:48
parent
60:49
but i i think in in modern dating it’s
60:52
way more you believe transgender parents
60:55
unconditionally love you but not each
60:57
other
61:00
i think they’ve grown to love each other
61:01
but it took a lot of
61:03
work it took a lot of work well
61:06
let me ask you a question do your
61:08
parents have a good marriage
61:10
they have a great marriage have you ever
61:11
asked them they don’t love each other
61:13
that’s another fallacy that you brought
61:14
before that couples have to fuck into
61:15
their 80s
61:16
uh i mean i think that’s a very american
61:18
way of thinking no i said i said
61:20
what i said was you know nothing
61:24
about the sexuality of women that are
61:27
over the age of 60.
61:28
if you or someone you know has
61:30
experienced a hashtag cult is trapped in
61:32
a hashtag cult or you have been affected
61:33
by any group mentioned in the show
61:35
go to hashtag cold.org for resources or
61:38
to get in touch with the show
61:40
we want to hear your story is there a
61:42
car alarm going off by you
61:44
yes there is all right let’s wait a
61:47
second
61:48
god bless this mess
61:52
hopefully somebody notices notices
61:56
now this says yeah that’s a tough one i
61:59
mean or hopefully they just steal
62:00
hopefully they just steal the car
62:01
yeah here we can keep a problem we can
62:04
keep this for afterwards too
62:06
this is like a post thing i kept saying
62:08
bigamist instead of bigoted
62:10
[Laughter]
62:12
what’s with that it’s so weird i did and
62:16
the first time it happens i say
62:17
i say big i say bigamist and i go oh
62:20
like no no i’m actually saying bigoted
62:22
but the the what you would call it the
62:24
mic picked it up i like slurred my
62:26
tongue and it sounds like bigger missed
62:27
me and then i did it again i was like no
62:29
why do i keep saying
62:30
this that’s not the word i want
62:34
i i rarely do that and when i do i’m
62:37
always like no i didn’t
62:38
no no i didn’t say the wrong word
62:43
that’s really funny um i didn’t notice
62:46
for what it’s worth i did not well there
62:48
you go why won’t someone just steal that
62:50
car
62:51
i mean
62:56
ah huzzah all right